PHILADELPHIA (KYW Newsradio) — South Jersey native Cheryl Reeve is one of the top basketball coaches in the game today. She has spent 12 years as the head coach of the WNBA's Minnesota Lynx. Over the last four years, she has also served as general manager. Reeve led the Lynx to four WNBA titles.
Before her WNBA success, Reeve was a star player at La Salle University, coming up under coaches William "Speedy" Morris and John Miller. She discovered her interest in coaching under Miller, and followed that path to success on the national stage.
Reeve stopped by KYW Newsradio's "1-on-1 with Matt Leon" to talk about her career, from her days on the court to figuring out exactly what kind of coach she wanted to be, and growing from there. The following is a lightly edited excerpt from the conversation. You can listen to the entire episode above.
Matt Leon: As we are talking, the season for the WNBA just wrapped up. I'm curious, how long does it take you to kind of process the season and kind of ... decompress and get ready to get back on the horse for the next season?
Cheryl Reeve: Well, I would say this year was was a little bit different than in the past 11 years as the season ended, in that I felt like it was really important that I do something that I haven't done in a while, which is was sort of shut down. And you know, what exactly does that mean? I can never completely shut down. I've watched video, I've looked at free agency, I've done all those things ... but little less of getting out and doing appearances.
I have done some interviews, but I've just really kind of taken a step back and said, "Look, I need a little bit of time before I kind of get full throttle again," you know, what's changed through the years in the WNBA is the offseason, when I first got in the league in 2000, all the way to when I became head coach in 2010. You know, the the offseasons were, you know, sort of slow and a little bit depressing, not a lot to do. And it's just changed so much.
I live in market, maybe that's a big difference. Whereas in those other other 10 years, I was not in market. And so that might have something to do with it, you're in markets. So you're in demand, a lot of the players aren't there. So typically, the coaches are asked to do some things to keep the team relevant in the offseason and and then you know, taking on the role of general manager probably has added quite a bit to it, in that there's just so much preparation that goes into ... being ready for free agency when it starts in January. Then certainly decision-making as it pertains to the draft when it hits in April and, and then just following, following all the overseas play.
So there's a lot more to do, there's a lot more ways to stay connected to players, which we didn't have, when I first got in the league and a lot has changed. But decompressing is a hard word for me, you know, and that's relative. I think for some people, that means going somewhere and doing nothing and never thinking about their job. That's not the case. I have a hard time with that.
How much of a challenge is the dual role of coach and GM? Did it take a while to kind of find your find your pace, find your balance to to how much time you spent on each?
You know, I was lucky in that when I came here to Minnesota in 2010, we had a general manager by the name of Roger Griffith. He was also the executive vice president of the entire company, and then served as general manager for the Lynx. And Roger was pretty collaborative. And I've always been somebody that, you know, I really liked the draft, I really liked free agency and I really like noodling on, you know, transactions and, and so I think because of that, you know, I was a part of all the processes. So when it came time when Roger stepped away, and you know, I stepped in, it was an easy transition. And I really spend probably the same amount of time.
The biggest difference is in season. The fact that I have to worry about when I have, you know, an injury that puts us you know, below a certain number on the roster, and I got to figure out a replacement contract, things like that, when you have to be general managing in the season that's a little bit rough. Because I'd really like to focus on the x's and o's and, you know, preparation for our next opponent. And so when you're splitting your time there, that's probably the most difficult balance.
The way that our league is set up that the offseason, you know, there's time for these sorts of things. I do scouting valuations, etc, our staff does. Whereas in the NBA, the college season happens during their season, or the European season happens during their season, where you know, we're opposite and so, we actually have the time to do those things. That's not as hard in the offseason.
Some general managers have a hard time maybe, you know, being a general manager, making tough decisions with regard to contracts. Maybe a player didn't get as much money as they wanted to get, now they're feeling some kind of way and you've got to coach them. I've just never had that situation. You know, I think communication resolves a lot of those things. If you're up front and straightforward, they tend to work themselves out. But I'd say overall, it's not that difficult of a balance other than if you have problems during the season.
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So let's talk about your life in basketball. When you were growing up in South Jersey, was basketball number one on the list all the time, or were you a kid that played whatever was in season?
You know, I was very fortunate. My dad was in the Air Force. We moved around, only a little bit. I started my basketball career down in Warner Robins, Georgia. I was actually as a youngster, growing up in Omaha, Nebraska, where I was born in the first nine or 10 years of my life. I actually was really more into baseball and then turned [to] softball, did a lot of traveling with that sport.
I didn't get into basketball until — I believe it was the seventh grade. Coach Hall was my first coach. And I remember, I liked basketball, but my first love was being on the diamond. And then that changed when I got to high school. I was very, very fortunate to have a high school coach, Dawn Schilling — who is the spouse of John Bunting, so I guess I should say Dawn Bunting now — in that she coached both basketball and softball, and I played both in high school. But what she was really good about was the recognition of perhaps a future in one of the sports. She said to me, "You're probably more talented in softball, but basketball, there's probably gonna be more opportunities for you."
At that time, in the mid-'80s, from a scholarship opportunity, there was more there was more in basketball and, and I thought that was really helpful to me. I tried to play both when I got to college. I went to LaSalle University. In my freshman year, I did both. Speedy Morris was my coach in my freshman and sophomore years, and then John Miller for my remaining two, but I wasn't able to kind of continue with it.
And frankly, the game sort of passed me by. I wasn't as good when I got to be that age in softball, and, you know, I actually, you know, had more opportunities for a full ride and, and had a decent basketball career at LaSalle. And so I was fortunate in that that was my path and, and then from there, I just didn't want to be done with basketball. I didn't want to go overseas and do that I was more of a homebody. And then it led me right into coaching.
What was Speedy Morris like as a coach?
(Laughs) Exactly what you've heard.
I always say I'm unfortunately the subject of a long told story about my first my first season as a freshman. I actually had the opportunity to start because the senior Gina Tobin was injured. And I probably wasn't ready. Speedy was, you know, obviously really demanding. And we're down at Delaware. My first game [was] LaSalle versus Delaware and Delaware was in this zone, a 2-3 zone and they weren't guarding me at the top and they kind of spread out on the wings and I just repeatedly was taking turns on which side through to and turning the ball over, ended up with nine turnovers.
Speedy finally had enough and sat me down and — I've actually recently told our players this story — I began to cry. And Speedy turned and looked at me and he said, "You're crying? You're crying? I should be crying!" And so that became like a kind of a told story throughout the recruiting trails for many, many years, I'd meet people and they go, Oh, you're you're that player. But that because John Miller would go around telling that story because John Miller was in the stands, you know, just a couple seats behind and watched the whole thing.
Speedy was really, really a great coach for me, because my dad coached me similarly in that he was he was expected a lot of me. I think it's how I coach now you know. You get what you accept and I think my dad and speedy were the types of coaches I needed. I needed to be told I'm a little more self deprecating, I don't mind being told I'm not very good.
It motivated me and you know, so I enjoyed my was only two seasons was speedy, but they were two of the best years in the history of LaSalle women's basketball, and I think it helped shape me As far as the player that I became, and who I am today.
That game at Delaware aside, when you look at your career at LaSalle, what are some other memories that come racing back?
Oh, great memories, you know, just how good we were. I think we averaged - and I was actually recruited by Kevin Gallagher [before] Speedy was able to kind of come in and take over the program — like, 22 wins. We were in the NCAA tournament. And those are the things that that I remember the most just the success, how Speedy treated us. You know, he had a really good following. And so we felt really special and important.
There were great times. You don't know it at the time, how good you are and your place in that program's history, but some of the best years ever. Then John Miller took over in similar success. So prior to Speedy's arrival ... they were 11-18, I believe, the year before Speedy got there, and before my freshman year. Then four years of great success, and I remember just different tournaments that we went to in Florida and having success and having fun. I just loved every bit of it.
We ran the flex quite a bit, I sure miss that. Every once a while, as a coach, I go, "Why the hell are we not running that?" It's such an easy offense, [but] it was so hard to guard. I remember great matchups in the Big Five, St. Joe's in particular. [There were] some great memories of how hard the games were, Debbie Black, someone like that, that went and played in the WNBA. I tell people I played against Debbie Black and had a hard time bringing the ball up the floor against Debbie Black just like everybody did in the WNBA. Just great memories.
And they're very, very vivid, even though it was it was quite long ago. More than anything, what I remember is just being challenged, and then just really loving showing up every day and practicing. That's what I note with our teams today - if you don't have that joy of competing with and for each other, it's hard to reach a certain level of success. And I always go back to those days and remember that and we try to have the same things that we experienced then, I try to have the same thing in Minnesota.
It's interesting, you mentioned you were recruited by one coach, you start your career for another and you finish your career for a third. Was that difficult? Or was it you just looked at it like I think a lot of kids, you know, it might be three different personalities, three different styles, they might not be able to cope, but obviously with you, you were able to thrive?
I think at that age, you don't really know. I think about when I know what exists today in the AAUs and the decision-making around college and how early some of these things are being decided. I don't know if I was just super-young and green. That coaching change happened, I don't really know if I knew what to think about it. I just know that, for me, it worked out.
So maybe sometimes, when you're recruited by one coach, and there's a change that maybe the vision that that coach has for you isn't the same as when you were recruited, I get that that could be a challenge, but it just never happened for me. I do remember being very, very disappointed when when Speedy made the move over to the men's program. Then I thought, gosh, how naive were we at that age that — of course that was a setup for him to get the men's job. I know a lot more now than what we knew then. But I look back and I go, that whole thing was planned. I enjoyed the time that we had was speedy, and I'm very thankful for it. Then there's times I'm a little irritated that the women's program was used in that way. Again, knowing a lot more now.
Very, very fortunate that John Miller was the successor. Now Coach Miller was very, very different than Speedy. He was a far more patient coach. And there were times I wanted him to yell at me, like, "Don't accept that from me." And so it showed me that there's two different ways to be successful.
The best thing that John Miller ever taught me — I remember he hired me as a graduate assistant, I'm so thankful for that. And I remember standing up there with John while we're going through possessions of offense or defense. We're in the half court and, you know, these are players I played with and and John would be really patient when maybe there was a mistake made, and I look at him like, "Yell at her, get on her." He turned to me and he said, "Cheryl, your box is about this big." It was a really tight box with he made with his hands. He goes, "You'll see, as a coach and in life, that box is going to have to get bigger, it's going to have to expand as far as what you accept, or how you handle those things."
It was tremendous advice. I had no idea what the hell he meant when I was 22, no idea. Then you get into coaching and you become a head coach, and you start to realize that's exactly what he meant. So I think about my four years at LaSalle, with Speedy, with John, so many lessons that I learned that they helped me along my coaching journey.
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You mentioned you got hired as a graduate assistant. My first question — I'm always curious about this — you mentioned you played with a lot of the kids you're now coaching. How tough is that just ... from a human, a social standpoint, that last month, these, you know, these women were your teammates, you were on a level playing field, and now you're in a position of authority, the next month, was it difficult to adjust to?
It wasn't for me, because I wasn't actually a terribly social person. So in terms of that, being of the similar age and having similar interests, I was kind of odd that way. I didn't enjoy the the partying and doing some social things. I was pretty nerdy basketball-wise, and working out, that was my night out. I wanted to go over to Hayman Hall and get some work in, get the cones out and do that sort of thing. I think that sometimes the challenge could be is, how do you communicate? Then maybe for the players, like how - like I listened to you, you were just my teammate. But I don't remember any issues there. That seemed like a pretty easy transition, I learned a ton in my two years. It was honestly the last thing I wanted to do.
I graduated in '88 with [a bachelor's degree] in computer science and management information systems. I really wanted to get on with life, and I wanted to go into coaching and I wanted to get a full-time job, but John gave me this opportunity to go back to school and get a master's and get into coaching that way. Honestly, it was not my first choice. But it ended up being the best choice. I remember my mom, you know, we just talked about this recently — we were in the kitchen, I remember exactly where my dad was, where my mom was. And my dad was adamantly opposed to a career in coaching, because he felt like I wasn't gonna be able to support myself. That was really what he wanted me to be able to do.
And, you know, computer science was really hot at that time. And he actually chose my major for me and, and I did okay at it, had decent grades, and he wanted me to go get that full-time job that I worked so hard for and was gonna pay well and support myself. But I knew it wasn't what I wanted to do. And my mom said, "Go get that master's, because once you have it, they can never take it away from you, and you'll be glad you had glad you had it." Thankfully, I chose that path to go get a master's and I got an MBA with a specialization in human resource management, because I thought that most would resemble coaching. Somehow, that was my logic at that time.
It has absolutely ... nothing to do with coaching, but at the time I reasoned that's why I was going to go get an MBA. Because I thought, I don't know what the hell I want to do. Go get it, go get an MBA or master's in something. But that's what I did. It was a great decision. Like my mom said, I have this master's and that high level of education. It probably all served me well, but more than anything, it got me down this path of being a coach. All the way up until 2008 when my dad passed, he asked me every year when I was going to get a real job. (Laughs) But it's worked out pretty good.
Did coaching feel right? Right at the beginning? And what I mean by this that like yes, this is where I'm going to spend my career.
Yeah, you know, I tell you, when I learned that was going to be my path, it was actually between my junior and senior year. Do you remember the name Cathy Rush?
Yes, absolutely.
Right. So Cathy Rush basketball camps up in Doylestown, Pa. That was the spot. I remember I did an internship in my major, which was actually an internship with the IRS and I was configuring systems. We get on the city bus, go over to 6th and Arch [streets] and you know, go into the office and have that sort of day where I was kind of told when I could have a break, very boring, very mundane. I did that for four or five weeks.
That same summer, I did five weeks straight of Cathy Rush basketball camp. So the reason why you work Cathy Rush camps was to work on your game. You know, the teaching of the kids was a side gig. It was really about going and playing against other camp counselors that were all great players from all the colleges. We would get together and play these pickup games. We made $125 a week. We worked Sunday afternoon to Friday morning. When I tell you we worked how many hours a day and we made $125 a week, it didn't matter. It wasn't about the compensation. But in that, what I learned at the end was how much I connected to coaching the players, not only in the skill stuff, but when we got to the games, and just the joy I got from seeing a young person work on something, and then we got to the game, the strategy or using of the skill, and how it made me feel.
And I felt like I had a calling, I felt like I had a draw to it. So when I got to coach with John, it wasn't a question of whether I was trying to figure out why I wanted to coach. I knew I wanted to coach and that Cathy Rush basketball camp experience is what allowed me to learn that about myself.
Was it hard to close the door on playing? Or were you comfortable with that? Because I know even when you're at that young age, you're still in shape. And, you know, did you ever get the pull that maybe I could give overseas a try? Or once that curtain closed, it was closed for you?
That was very hard. I remember really struggling as a senior, you know, that I didn't want it to end, didn't want it to be over. I thought why does the NCAA tell us we can only get four years? Why can't we have longer? (Laughs) I just wanted to keep playing, especially the way my career ended. We were in the NCAA Tournament, we hosted the mighty Penn State at Hayman Hall, we couldn't fit all their fans and the band. We only could seat, I don't know, probably max capacity was a thousand, probably if that's even right. And Susan McConnell, who's now Susan McConnell-Serio, actually ended my career. So it was one of those things, you just don't want it to and certainly don't want it to end at home on a difficult loss. Not sure if it went to overtime, but it was a one-point game. But anyway, you just want to keep playing.
But you know what, the overseas thing had zero appeal to me, and I don't know, it's just kind of how I grew up. You know, we did move around a little bit, you know, but it was more in the States. I had no experience about traveling outside. And so I just couldn't fathom, being in another country doing that. So I literally gave zero thought to overseas. I knew it was an option. I want to say maybe I had one or two smallish countries that there was an opportunity. Actually one of my teammates, Kelly Greenberg, went. I believe she might have played in Australia. So she did the overseas thing, and, but it just, it just was never appealing to me.
And so the only option for me to stay in the game was coaching, so I'm thankful that they at least had that opportunity. And I never did anything again with basketball as far as playing, other than, you know, occasional three-on-threes, four-on-fours that you do while, like you said, you're a little younger and more in shape. Now, I just shoot a little bit, you know, 15-footers. That's about it.
So after you were two years at LaSalle, as an assistant, correct, and then it goes, then you go to [George Washington]?
That's exactly right.
So along that line of seven years as an assistant coach, when do you I think everybody that coaches thinks that they want to run their own program, but when do you start to think, "You know what, I not just want to do it, I feel like I'm ready, I just feel like the opportunity is going to come soon?" Do you remember when you started to feel like, you know, you were ready for a head coaching job?
Yeah, so I was really fortunate that at George Washington University was a Philly guy by the name of Joe McKeown, that hired me and Joe knew Speedy and Coach Miller so well, and that's how I got my opportunity down there.
I was so green, entering as a full-time assistant coach down at GW. But we spent five years together, Joe McKeown and I did. Joe transformed that program and gave me opportunities probably about my third year into being an assistant. I started getting opportunities because the program was so successful, we were ranked nationally that I got some opportunities from what I would consider more BCS, bigger schools. [I] had maybe an opportunity to go to Arkansas and be in the SEC and as assistant coach, so I had to make a decision. Was that my next step? Or did I want to be a head coach from from my experience with GW?
And Joe was really, really good and communicating with me about, "Hey, be careful what you wish for." Sometimes being a top assistant at a really good program like a GW where we were recruiting well, we were having success, sometimes that's better than going to be head coach at a smaller program and having a hard time finding success. You don't have the resources, etc. So I was really mindful of that.
It wasn't until after the fifth season — and at that point, we were ranked sixth in the country — that I really started think I should strike while the iron was hot. An opportunity came for me to go coach at Indiana State. You know, when I look back on on that, I thought that I was I was really in tune to the messaging from Joe McKeown. I think, having more worldly experience now, I probably would not have made that move. But it's something that I did. I was 28 years old. Become a head coach at 28 was pretty young, I'd say. And no, I don't think I was ready.
But I also believe this - now I have assistant coaches that want to be head coaches, and they always question whether [they're] ready. Lindsay Whalen, great player from the state of Minnesota, had a tremendous WNBA career got the opportunity with zero coaching experience to be a candidate for the University of Minnesota job. And I remember her calling me and we talked about it and she said, "Coach, do you think I'm ready?" And the first thing I said is, "First of all, there's no guy that would say, 'Do I think I'm ready for this job?'" Guys think they're ready for every job. So I was not going to let Lindsay Whalen think that she wasn't ready.
The truth of it is, you're probably never truly ready for what's about to come as a head coach. But there are some times when you just need to go do it, go make your mistakes and take your licks, etc. If you're humble, and you surround yourself with good people in terms of your staff, you can get through those moments and you learn and you grow. And I thought Lindsay was was definitely a person that would do that.
And I think for me, you don't know what you don't know, really even living in different parts of the country. So I learned a lot about my experience and going to be a head coach at Indiana State, just about who I am, and what I stand for. And I think without those experiences, it's hard to get to the place that I'm at now, which is, I'm really happy in life and have a great franchise that I'm working for, and we're finding success.
So without that earlier journey of ... making decisions and maybe making some mistakes, [you don't] get to that this place that I am now. I think no matter what it is, coaching or anything else, that's exactly what the journey of life is, going and learning. When I got to the WNBA, I had some experiences where I said, "Okay, I learned just what not to do." Those are just as valuable as learning what to do. That's that whole path. If I never became a head coach at 28, I probably wouldn't have learned as much as I did.
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What was the biggest surprise when you become a head coach? I know I've talked to a lot of other people about this, and most of the time, the biggest surprise is the things that have nothing to do with basketball that you're now responsible for. What was the biggest eye opener for you once you're the point person in charge?
Those things didn't bother me. Joe McKeown was so good at the non-basketball stuff. And you know, I kind of watched him and I knew that was going to be a part of it. But you don't realize how hard it is, because it really feels like when you're sitting there as an assistant coach, and you're making suggestions, it seems so easy. And everything is clear, your vision is clear.
When you get to be a head coach — you know, I find myself vetting things in a way that I just didn't as an assistant coach. When I'm an assistant coach for the for the national team, I'm reminded of how easy it is to be an assistant coach, how easy it is to be at practice and see something and say, "Well, this is exactly what we should do."
And sometimes when you're a head coach, you maybe overthink it. I speak for myself, maybe you overthink it, you kind of go around, you might get to the same answer. But you have to give a lot more thought before making a final decision than when you're an assistant coach. You certainly sleep a lot less as a head coach versus an assistant coach because the responsibility for — I think as assistant coach, your relationships are easier in terms of your daily, you're working out with them. You're a buffer.
I always find myself saying as an assistant coach, "OK, what did Joe McKeown want? What what did he want from this player? What did he want as a team as far as identity?" and my job was just to go execute it. I would go spend some time with players and skill workouts and try to kind of hype them up and that's easy. But as a head coach, you don't get to have those same relationships. You're not as in the trenches with the players in that way. So I think managing personalities, recognizing you know that you're not going to treat them all the same, whether that's something people believe it or not, you can't, you know, each individual is so different.
And so I love the process of learning about an individual player, what motivates them, and how I need to coach them. As an assistant coach, you didn't think that way. So the difficulty, the thing I'm not ready for, is just how hard it really is. Because I think sometimes when you show up to a game, and you watch, you think the job is easy, and it's just not. And that's what people always talk about, you know, just sliding one seat over, the decisions that you make, and that ultimately, it falls on you.
I know I'm the type of person, I want to be prepared. And so, I probably make things harder than what maybe they really are. But at the end of the day, you know, I think that's probably when I look at the difference between assistant and head, that would probably be it. For me, it wasn't the extra stuff.
But you do have to deal with parents as a college [head] coach in a way that you don't as an assistant. That would be a challenge. In our world, and the pros, it's agents. But you know, life's about relationships. And that's something I learned a while ago. And I think if you have the relationships, and you spend the time on those things, everything else takes care of itself.
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