As we continue to navigate these unprecedented times, KCBS Radio is getting the answers to your questions about the coronavirus pandemic. Every morning at 9:20 a.m. Monday-Friday we're doing an "Ask An Expert" segment with a focus on a different aspect of this situation each day.
Today, we're talking about travel and the risks associated with it because of the virus with Dr. Lisa Lee, a public health expert with Virginia Tech who specializes in infectious disease epidemiology and public health ethics.
We have word this morning that United Airlines has sent potential layoff notices out to about half of its workforce. It seemed a few weeks ago that everybody was going to get back to traveling, and now it looks like everybody is recoiling once again. What's your read?
Yeah, I think what we're seeing with this resurgence of cases you know more than we've ever seen reported in a single day, people are rightfully worried about travel and worry about going to places where prevalence is high and also worried about potentially bringing infection back. So the travel worries make sense right now. We should all be thinking very carefully about where it is we're headed and whether it's worth our potential exposure either along the way or once we get there.
And one of the challenges, of course, is calculating risk right? For each of us, maybe we have already figured out what our routine is at home but travel is necessarily broadening, as they say, and the routine changes.
Absolutely. And the other piece about it is the routine at home is somewhat predictable, right? We know we have a lot more control over what's happening in our own home and who's there and who has a mask on and who doesn't. If somebody who's not part of our household comes in - a plumber or worker - we can ask them to mask up. It's a totally different situation in terms of travel where things can be unpredictable. So we have a lot less control over everyone and everything around us when we travel.
Let's get to some specific questions people have about this, which can be sent in to askus@kcbsradio.com. First one: now that I hear some big airlines are going to fill the middle seats, I'm a lot more nervous about flying. Am I just being nervous, or should this be a cause for concern?
Well, I concur, I'm a lot more nervous about flying as well. I think, as we talked about last time around flying, the risks are associated with the people around you. And if we're spread out far enough and everybody has masks on, that's one thing. But if we're scrunched in a plane very close to other people and some are not wearing their masks or not wearing the masks the whole time, that close contact is of concern. Now again, when we think about airplane travel, we think about being on the plane and being in the seat, which, having someone right next to you is a higher risk. But we also have to think about the way to the airport, how we get there, waiting in lines where there's high density of people and we can't necessarily be physically six feet or more apart from folks. So the risk for flying still exists and if we're filling up all middle seats we're increasing that risk a bit.
As we talked about last time, the air is well circulated on a plane, so that's a little bit safer. But that's not going to take away the risk of somebody sitting next to you that potentially is coughing or exhaling droplets that you might inhale.
We're considering a vacation where we would get a hotel room and stay in that same room for three or four nights. How likely would it be for us to get infected if the hotel maid that cleaned our room had COVID-19? Would our spending the first hour cleaning the room make a tangible difference? I can envision cleaning the hard surfaces like tabletops, doorknobs, bathroom fixtures, etc, but what can be done about soft surfaces like bedspreads? And how likely would it be for us to get infected from a soft surface?
These are really good questions and great thinking through your whole vacation, which I applaud. So I would say, firstly, the first thing to do is when you're making reservations for your hotel, ask them what the cleaning process is. And they should be able to provide you with a checklist or summary of what their cleaning and disinfecting process is. And then I would request that you be assigned a room that has been cleaned and vacant for at least two to three days. And that way, whoever was there last, whether it's another traveler or a hotel employee, the virus has had time to deactivate and die, basically. It does not last forever on surfaces - a few hours to maybe a day - so if you can get a room where the last person that's been in it has been a couple of days, you're reducing your risk.
Now in terms of the question about cleaning surfaces and would that help: for many people what that will help is their anxiety. And it will help relieve some of that. So there's no harm in doing that. I would suggest, it's gonna help you feel better about being in that room, definitely take some wipes, take some disinfectant, wipe down the commonly touched surfaces and you should feel better. In terms of soft surfaces, again, that's harder to do. You're not gonna take all the bedding and take it to the laundry. But again if you ask for a room where there hasn't been a person in the room for a few days, those should be okay.
How often should sheets be changed? Is it different for those sleeping alone or with a partner? Is normal washing adequate?
Yeah, so I would say that, you know, I mean,certainly bedding should be washed between every hotel guest. I mean, that seems like a bare minimum of hotel cleanliness that even without COVID, we should be required to do. But I think in terms of whether you're staying at a house as a guest - if someone you’re in the room with or sleeping in the bed with has COVID, then that’s a different question. They should probably not be in the same room. And otherwise, laundering sheets - laundry does de-activate the virus. So, you know, soap and water, cleaning through a laundry cycle is adequate for decontaminating clothing, and washable face masks. That should do the trick.
We’re supposed to fly to Maryland for Thanksgiving to see my family. Will it be safe to travel then?
Boy, if we've not learned one thing over the last several weeks, we've learned that this epidemic is unpredictable. And no one thought we would be rising to the top with 60,000 new cases a day, breaking records every day. It's going to be really hard to predict out until November. I think the key here is recognizing that travel is going to bring some risk. And you have to be confident that you can mitigate that risk as much as possible by staying six feet away from others, wearing a mask, washing your hands, those kinds of things.
We're thinking of going to Cabo, San Lucas in December. Two of us are over 55, one 62 with a nine-year-old child. Is this risky? It's a big resort with three pools. I guess the punchline question here is: Is swimming okay?
Yeah, that's that's a great question, we get that often. Being in the water is not a risk. The risk in the swimming situation, or in a hotel situation like your traveller described, is the risk from other people in the area. So you know, if people are unable to stay six feet apart (and that means in the pool as well). So thinking about screaming and jumping and exhaling a lot in the pool, probably not going to have a mask on - that's where the risk comes in. It's not the risk of the water. It's the risk of congregating around the water without the ability to stay far enough away and/or to wear a mask.
During long road trips, lots of people stop at fast food outlets, both to get something to eat and to use the restroom, with many such outlets converting to drive through or take out, only does that mean the restrooms are no longer available? And if so, what are the alternatives?
Ah, great question. So there are some restaurants that are only doing curbside, not letting anybody in. Others probably have their restrooms available. I think the key for any of that is, again, the four basic public health risk mitigation strategies: Make sure you're six feet away from others, make sure you wear your mask, wash your hands frequently and don't touch your face. So when you are stopping to get something to eat and the restroom is open, just don't crowd in there with other people. Make sure you've got enough space. If there's only room for one person in there, be the only one to go in there and ask others to wait for you to leave. And you know, just wash your hands thoroughly after you touch any of the surfaces. In terms of alternatives, it is challenging. There are even some rest stops that are not allowing folks to congregate. So you know, there are some commercial products available for people, for women in particular. To be able to use the restroom with a contraction in the car, which might be an option. But this is a big problem.
I live in the Bay Area. My 81-year-old mother lives alone in her own house in San Diego, and is well. What would be the safest way to visit her? Fly on an airline with no one in the middle seat or drive, knowing I'd have to stop for gas and bathroom breaks? There's no pressing need for me to visit her at this time. Would it be best to just wait?
Excellent question, and this brings in several really key points. One is: if you're going to be visiting someone who had higher risk for complications, and that is anybody over 60, anybody with another chronic condition, people who are immuno-compromised - it is best practice to self-quarantine for two weeks, make sure that you're not exposed for at least two weeks. And then in terms of travel there, your own car is probably more safe because you would have to interact with people much less frequently and with much less proximity in your own car than you would if you had to get to the airport, check in, stand in line to get on the plane, board, sit next to someone, etc. All of those are opportunities for infection. If you have control and you can drive your own car, keep your distance at the gas station and when you stop to use the restroom, probably much safer. And then when you get to the person's home, if you've been able to keep your distance and not have exposure for two weeks, you can be pretty comfortable that you probably aren't going to bring the infection to them.
Recently, some friends boarded a flight to Hawaii. A passenger entered and boarded the plane, sweating and coughing. Southwest told the people who complained there was nothing they could do. In this time is there nothing the airline can do to refuse a sick passenger entry to a flight?
Airlines can refuse service to a passenger who would refuse to wear a mask or who potentially is sick. The key with all of this is there is no coordinated federal response for airlines. So every airline is making the rules up as they go. So they are weighing, as you might imagine, both the dramatic drop in revenue that they've had with trying to make sure that people are safe on their voyage. So they're in a tough spot without really any federal guidance on this. It would be so much better if we had a coordinated response and airlines could look to a leader and say ‘what is it we should do? But in the absence of that, every airline is really making their own rules.
What are airlines allowed to do if passengers near you are wearing masks, but they're not appropriate? Like if they have an unfiltered exhaust valve or if they're only loosely-fitting at the sides and breath is coming out toward the people nearby? Do they have the authority to force those people to either cover up the exhaust valve or tighten the mask? Or are we on our own?
So again, airlines are making their own requirements and you know most are requiring that people wear a face covering to protect themselves and to protect others, whether they specify that that has to be a mask without a valve. Again, it's something they can determine. It certainly would behoove everybody if it's that in the situation. Like they just described that somebody either not wearing it correctly or has a valve, that the airline either has on hand some additional masks, that they could swap it out for the person or that they ask the person to wear it correctly. I personally carry extra masks with me all the time, and there have been situations where I've just been out and about either at the grocery or to the gas station, and I have asked people, ‘I’m concerned. Would you mind putting a mask on?’ If they say they don't have one, then I've offered one. And I haven't had anyone refuse. So you know, it can potentially be something we help each other do.
I'm really confused about the rules for travel to Europe. Are Americans banned from entering *period* or just through certain airports?
Great question as well. So the E.U. In general, I think it was maybe mid-March they coordinated to have external borders. They closed them basically for travelers coming in. They have since, I think just recently in the last couple of weeks, started to lift that country by country. The U.S. is still one of the countries that is not allowed to visit. Every country has a little bit of a different program. So some require a 14-day quarantine upon arrival. Others require a test plus quarantine. Others know people from this place cannot get a visa and cannot come.
But fundamentally, the travel that has been canceled, so to speak, for Americans to arrive in the E.U. is what they're calling non-essential travel. And there are some exceptions. So if it's an essential travel trip, they allow that. There are some other exceptions, like if you're a worker that is doing some kind of medicines sans frontier or some kind of healthcare professionals or researchers and things. They will allow that, but they are being pretty clear that they would not appreciate our coming there and potentially bringing coronavirus there. It's especially challenging now when our rates are becoming record-breaking at this point. So I think people are very concerned.
If you're thinking about a particular country, know that the requirements are changing very frequently as the epidemic changes, and you should really check with the consulate or the embassy as close to your planned departure date as possible because it does change frequently.
We have a long planned trip to France and Italy, scheduled for October. I'm concerned that the ban on U.S. visitors may still be in place by then. If so, but if the flight is still scheduled, will we be able to get our money back?
Boy, that's a good question. I would check with your airline on that. You know, there are lots of questions about getting refunds for things that had been planned and then postponed. Every company again is allowed to make their decision about how they want to handle refunds. But I would definitely call and find out what your potential recourse is.
Yesterday, I heard about a new push to encourage people to start going back to see their doctors for routine health issues. With the rise in cases and increased hospital capacity is that wise?
Ah, really good question. I think for routine things that don't don't really need immediate attention, you’ve got to consider whether it's worth the risk. And I think, depending on where you live and how the cases are increasing and at what rate, it might not be the best time to do that. I would say the best advice is to call your doctor and ask them whether they think it makes sense. They might be busy with their own coronavirus stuff. If not, they might be able to assure you that they're taking the right precautions to have you interact at the office.