As we continue to navigate these unprecedented times, KCBS Radio is getting the answers to your questions about the coronavirus pandemic. Every morning at 9:20 a.m. Monday-Friday we're doing an "Ask An Expert" segment with a focus on a different aspect of this situation each day.
Today we’re looking at the ongoing shelter in place orders in the Bay Area and around the state with Karen Rosenthal, Deputy Counsel for San Mateo County.
Q: We had the Governor’s new discussion yesterday - not really a modification of any orders. Before we get going, would you care to sum up what you heard and how that might apply to everybody listening right now?
So in the Governor’s statement yesterday, he didn’t establish a timeline. But what he said is, “I am in charge of California, I will establish a framework for how to proceed going forward - how to lift restrictions, how to re-open businesses. I am partnering with two other states.” The Governor said that it would be driven by science and public health. So he didn’t establish a timeline, he said that there would be several factors that would need to be met before he can set dates for how to re-open the businesses.
And how that ties back to the Bay Area shelter in place orders is that it really drives home that we are all in charge of the timeline. So if we do our part, if we follow these orders, if we keep the curve flattened, that will mean that that’s all the sooner that we can return to having businesses opened.
Q: Along the way of course we’ll probably touch on some more of what might be coming. So these are questions our listeners have submitted to our email inbox at askus@kcbsradio.com: I want to plant my annual vegetable garden. I usually buy my seedling plants from a local hardware store’s nursery. Am I allowed, and when vermin make contact with my fruits and vegetables, can they transmit the virus?
So first, nurseries and florists unfortunately are not going to be open because those are not considered essential businesses. The question referred to a hardware store and the nursery that’s connected to that; hardware stores are considered to be essential businesses so those remain open. So if someone is going to the hardware store anyway, they can go ahead and purchase seeds and seedlings. We definitely want to encourage people to have those vegetable gardens.
The second part of the question - I’m not an expert but there hasn’t been any evidence that I’ve seen in the news that insects can transmit the COVID-19 virus.
Q: I live alone in an apartment and we don’t have a washer or dryer available. Are the laundromats open? What do we do to take care of our dirty clothes if we can’t go to a friend’s house like we used to?
Laundromats and dry cleaners are deemed to be essential businesses and they can stay open.
Q: Now, if you see one that’s closed is that a choice by the owner then?
Yes, so the order doesn’t require any business to stay open. They are encouraged but they’re not required so they can make the decision not to stay open.
Q: Also in the category of housekeeping and cleanliness: We are seniors, can we have housecleaners come to our home on a regular basis as we have in the past? Seems like we all should be able to in order to keep our homes as sanitary as possible.
Sure. So nothing is really business as usual. Use of housecleaners is limited only to the extent that it’s necessary for safety, sanitation or habitability. The question did mention keeping the home sanitary - again they have to make the decision about whether it’s really necessary.
We should encourage them to really limit outsiders coming to the home. If there are housecleaners coming in, we want them to observe all social distancing requirements. The other option would be a family member or a close friend - if they can safely come and help the seniors do home cleaning, that would be allowed.
Q: Parenthetically I’ve seen maid services coming and going. Do you have advice for people on how to handle that situation if somebody is coming to clean the home?
If it’s necessary for sanitation or habitability, we hope that they’re going to keep it limited. Definitely keep their distance to six feet, wipe down surfaces, wash your hands and just kind of do as much avoidance as you can.
Q: What happens if our notice to vacate our rental date is during the shelter in place timeframe? Our vacate notice is on hold since we shouldn’t be viewing other properties at this time.
It really depends on the reasons for the notice to vacate. The eviction moratorium that was put into place in this county and others says there can’t be any evictions based on non-payment of rent. There can’t be any no-fault evictions. So evictions can only happen in certain narrow categories like material breach of the lease, intentional destruction of the rental unit, criminal activity - but there are no no-fault evictions. So it depends on the reason behind the notice to vacate.
Also, there are restrictions on moves. Moves are not supposed to happen unless they are necessary or were in process before the shelter in place order.
Q: What are non-essential mail order businesses allowed to do during this time? Not home-based, it requires going to the business in Alameda County to pull orders and ship them. Can staff help if we keep social distancing and other rules in place?
So I would first say since they mentioned Alameda County that they would have to comply with the Alameda County shelter in place order. Also it’s not entirely clear what a mail order business is. We know that mailing and shipping services are allowed to operate. E-commerce services are also allowed to operate: Amazon, Ebay, any business with a primary function of shipping or delivering can continue to operate but they should observe social distancing and the other rules that are set forth in the order.
Q: So if I order, for example, coffee from a local retailer; maybe that’s not their primary business, but they’re allowed to ship?
Yes they are.
Q: I need to get a smog check done by the end of the month and then pay the registration fee for the car, but I’ve called a couple of smog check stations in my area and they are closed. Under the circumstances, do you think if I just send only the registration fee without the smog check certificate, that the DMV will accept it so that I can get my sticker?
So I can’t speak on behalf of the DMV. Regarding what businesses are allowed to operate - smog checks as part of auto repair would be allowed to operate because auto repair is considered an essential business. It could be that these places have just chosen to shut down.
There has been some advice from the California Bureau of Automotive Repair stating that if drivers can’t get a smog check, they should just go ahead and put the other things into place: get that registration paperwork and fees paid. And then once orders enable you to get the smog check, you can do that at a later time. But the best authority would be the California DMV.
Q: I have an appointment for my license renewal at the end of May - and of course right now we’re talking about dates through early May for the shelter in place order - this time my license cannot be renewed electronically because they need to take my eye test and updated picture etc in person. Do you know if DMV will be open by then?
I don’t know, I don’t know what’s going to happen in the future. I know that the DMV is extending deadlines for registrations and licenses that are expiring, and they can go to DMV.ca.gov for more information.
Q: Gyms and health clubs seem to be possible harbingers for the virus. Is there any planning underway on guidelines, controls or rules that will apply to health clubs, locker rooms, etc when they re-open? How would any rules or best practices be rolled out and verified?
I think this one would be a good place for a broad answer on how the rules were come up with in the first place and how they are being pushed out into the business community.
In the most recent version of the order, we had specific guidance on social distancing. And gyms are not allowed to be open at this time, but I think looking at the social distance protocols now may help give us a window into what the future may look like. And even Governor Newsom has alluded to that. He said maybe we envision a time in the future where we go to a restaurant and there are half as many tables and waiters are wearing masks and gloves.
So we don’t know what the future looks like. We do know that the social distancing protocols in order right now mandate six foot distances, limited number of people inside, marked lines, contact-free payment systems. So we have every confidence in the health officer and his team and I expect that if we look at gyms re-opening - and I’m sure that everyone wants to get back to the gym - that there would be rules in place to limit spread of the virus.
Q: Would senior ballroom dancing, or ballroom dancing period, be banned in the new norm after the pandemic?
And of course implicit in this is the thought that many of these couples are household sharing couples.
Obviously that is not allowed now, I think we don’t know what’s going to happen in the future. The Governor has noted that large gatherings will probably be prohibited or strongly discouraged for a while. I understand that dance partners themselves may be part of a household but they are interacting with other people there so I think they’re going to be really careful about that. Especially because they referenced seniors, and they are part of an at-risk group.
Q: Why aren’t stores requiring customers to have face coverings on before entering?
I can’t answer that about face coverings. I do know that the order does have a number of requirements in place that we discussed, the social distancing protocols. All of the stores that remain open should be following those social distancing protocols and I think we’ll just have to wait and see about future health orders and whether those include face coverings.
Q: Can we run down what the retail establishment regulations are as of the most recent update of the shelter in place order?
Under the San Mateo County order, businesses that remain open have to limit the number of people in the facility to ensure that everyone can maintain six feet distance from one another. When there are lines - I think we’ve all seen this - there have markings keeping people apart in line by six feet or more. They’re also supposed to have soap and water or hand sanitizer at or near the entrance and anywhere where there’s high frequency employee interaction.
They also have to have contactless payment systems. They have to regularly disinfect high touch surfaces. And they have to have a sign telling people what they should already know, which is don’t come inside if you have a cough or fever, keep six feet away, sneeze and cough into your elbow and avoid any unnecessary contact.
Q: The residential gardening services: there are weekly visits going on, the mow and blow people trimming grass and shrubs that are for cosmetic reasons only. Logically, how can it be for fire safety reasons with only a week’s growth?
In the course of staffing our call center, answering questions over weeks, gardeners are the subject we got the most number of inquiries on. Our rules state that gardeners, landscapers and arborists are only allowed to provide services if it’s for habitability, sanitation or safety such as dangerous conditions or fire hazards.
I don’t know about this specific scenario - I’m not there, I can’t observe them - but it’s really supposed to be limited, it’s not supposed to be for cosmetic purposes. If your grass is getting long you’re just going to have to live with it. But there are circumstances where someone needs poison oak trimmed back - we don’t want people to end up in the hospital with poison oak, we don’t want people to trip over overgrown shrubbery and end up in the hospital. We’ve got to keep the hospitals clear to deal with COVID-19 cases.
Q: My teenager has been in shelter in place for several weeks now, so have his friends. No one has shown signs or symptoms. At what point would it be ok for them to hang out with each other? Would it be ok to go to each other’s houses as long as there were still social distancing rules being observed? Would they be able to go on a run together or do a workout together as long as they wiped the equipment down after each person used it?
I hate delivering bad news but unfortunately under this current order none of that is allowed. The only exercise that is permitted under the order is solitary exercise. And I know it’s so hard for people but we have to do that to keep the curve flattened and to prevent the spread of the virus. I think people are finding very creative ways to stay connected. People are doing virtual workouts, people are working out “together” by having earbuds in, people are using Zoom to do workouts. We just encourage them to stay the course, keep flattening the curve.
Q: We are a family that frequently takes out our RV to the middle of the forest and ride ATVs. Is going on a camping trip with just our immediate family, no other people, seen as an acceptable “social distancing activity”?
Unfortunately I have to say that is not allowed because to go to this forest with the RV would be non-essential travel. We really want people to stay in their homes and avoid the roads because they could break down, they could get injured, there could be accidents while they’re camping and then they end up in the hospital. So unfortunately camping is not allowed for the time being.
Q: This next questioner has a variety of questions all around food being delivered to seniors and wants to know - there are senior lunch providers who have always been providing prepared meals to seniors, what steps are they taking now to make sure that there is no viral contamination? What should the recipients of the food do when they get it? Do they need to throw away the container immediately? Do they need to heat up the food, etc?
I would say in terms of food prep, any business that is preparing food has to do the same things they’ve always done in terms of washing their hands, observing sanitations, keeping foods to certain temperatures. That hasn’t changed. What’s changed is that they also now have to observe social distancing and be careful.
The seniors, what they have to do after they handle anything is just wash their hands.
Q: Another one regarding seniors - and implicit here is that only older people read the newspaper on paper, that’s not right (laughs) - if the paper is delivered daily to their house, is that safe? How do they sanitize it? Do they need to sanitize it?
I’m not a scientist, that’s not my area of expertise. My primary advice which may not be practical is to look for an online version. A lot of papers have electronic versions that are very similar, same content, even the same layout. If that’s not possible then the safest thing to do is actually to quarantine the newspaper. There has been evidence the virus can live on various materials for even a few days. I understand that defeats the purpose of a daily paper, but you can’t really disinfect. If you spray disinfectant, the paper’s all wet. So use gloves to put it away for a couple days and then you can handle it.
Q: Back to the sort of limbo we’re in - we’ve rescheduled our window installation from April 7th to May 7th. Do we need to reschedule it again if the shelter in place order continues through the month of May?
We have to see what the next order looks like. The current order goes through May 3rd and we’re in a wait-and-see mode. The only exception would be if right now they don’t have windows and are exposed to the elements so there’s a safety or habitability pressing need. It doesn’t sound like that’s the case so I think they’re going to have to wait and then review the new order and see if its allowed.
Q: What is essential construction and what’s not? There have been numerous complaints, if you were taking calls and gardening was number one, construction was probably number two right?
Yes.
Q: So what’s allowed?
There are eight categories of construction that are allowed. The most recent order was stricter than the prior order so we did have a lot of questions about that.
Allowed construction includes projects that necessary for: (1) essential infrastructure, (2) projects associated with healthcare operations - and that’s defined broadly to include a range of hospitals, biotech, etc, (3) affordable housing or housing that’s income restricted or mixed-use developments that contain at least 10% income-restricted, (4) public works projects if they’ve been designated by a government agency as an essential government function, (5) shelters and temporary housing, (6) projects that are necessary to provide critical non-commercial services to people that are experiencing homelessness, elderly persons or people with special needs, (7) construction that’s necessary only to the extent of wrapping up construction and making sure that construction sites are shut down in a safe and secure manner and (8) construction necessary so that a residence or business will be safe, sanitary or habitable only to the extent that it can’t reasonably be delayed.
Q: So reading between the lines, it’d be one thing to say we’ve got to get the toilet back in the bathroom, but putting the fancy wall covering on is probably not okay.
That’s exactly right.
Q: The topic of tracking those who’ve been exposed to the virus keeps coming up. I’ve heard an app can be used - this questioner may be asking about the Apple-Google program we’ve heard about in recent days - how can the counties get the info they need without jeopardizing privacy?
So I’m going to defer. That is not my area of expertise but we have the brightest minds in the county working on that and I know the counties are talking to each other and we’re well aware that privacy regulations are not suspended even in times of a pandemic.
So I’m certain that we’re going to do everything that we can to monitor public health and make sure that we try to stop this virus from spreading but we will be conscious of people’s safety and we’re not going to violate any of their civil liberties.
