Public safety, crime, violence, and issues with policing have been dominant stories in Minnesota, the Twin Cities, and really across the entire country the last few years. Heading into Midterm Elections, it continues to be a talking point for campaigns, and there has been widespread concern about public safety from the public.
Bob Fletcher is in his second stint as Ramsey County Sheriff. He was elected and served from 1994 until 2010. Fletcher ran again and was elected in 2018. While Hennepin County has run into serious issues with Sheriff Dave Hutchinson who is currently on a medical leave, Fletcher has been a steady law enforcement presence for St. Paul and Ramsey County.
He sat down for an in-depth Q&A with Vineeta Sawkar on the WCCO Morning News where they discussed crime in Ramsey County, issues with juvenile detention across the state, and a new charter school that opens this fall he hopes will start to address the needs of kids in the community.
Vineeta Sawkar: You have this "Live on Patrol" on Facebook. You go out on the streets, you see what's happening on our streets. We've seen the increase in crime. People are concerned about it. They're looking for ways to combat it. I want to get your perspective on what you see.
Sheriff Bob Fletcher: Well, it's no secret. Homicide rates are at records in both cities, carjacking’s have skyrocketed as well. Auto thefts of Kia’s and Hondas are skyrocketing. What we know is that a majority of our serious crime is committed by juveniles, by kids under 18 years of age. And it really ranges from age 13 to 16. Younger and younger children are being arrested. In the long run, if we're really going to combat crime, violence, we need to have a better strategy for young people.
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Sawkar: What should that strategy include?
Fletcher: Well, we need to do prevention programs, intervention programs, and suppression, or what we call enforcement programs. We can do a better job at all three. You know, our carjacking, auto theft team has arrested a lot of kids for that type of activity. One of the problems we have on the enforcement side is the detention facilities to hold children have really been eliminated. Both the homeschool in Minneapolis, and the boy's Totem Town in Ramsey County were eliminated in 2015. There was a hope to replace that with some type of facility. It's gone.
So that's on the enforcement side. On the prevention side, we're doing afterschool programs. We're reaching out the best that we can, but honestly, it's not really making enough of a dent.
Here’s what we know Vineeta. Our juvenile offenders, our most serious ones, had difficulty reading at third grade. That's 75% of the people in prisons can't read at a functional level. It's only exceeded by drug addiction. 80% have some form of chemical addiction. But the one thing we can change is how well a child does in school. If they can't read, they're going to suffer low self-esteem, they're going to start, hanging out with the wrong kids and I was a juvenile commander for four years at St. Paul. I could outline what that evolution is, but it starts with a good education.
The second thing Wilder Research has identified is that kids need a responsible adult role model that they perceive is concerned for their needs and values. Really a mentor of some sort. And it doesn't take a ton of hours. It's someone that's there for them. That lets them know they care about them. That they believe in them, and they can succeed. So those are the two things, educational success and mentors to help kids get to that successful adult age. So our whole strategy needs to be, how do we do more of that?
Sawkar: Does it frustrate you when you see some of these kids getting arrested over and over again? And sometimes it is that same group of kids over and over again, they're getting in trouble.
Fletcher: Yes. There's no doubt. We know the same 50 to 75 children that are the most violent in Ramsey County. We do arrest them multiple times. I have often said, I think the juvenile system right now is failing them because it doesn't do any good to send them back to a dysfunctional home. Which is the strategy a majority of times. And that came out of some thinking that somehow detention was harming children. I can tell you that juvenile detention helps children. Many get their GED. They get off drugs. They get away from people that are negative in their environment. They might actually, in some cases, start job opportunities. So I'm a big fan of using the juvenile system to help a child change direction. But there are others that would say, ‘no, let's not put them in any detention’. Because they perceive it as prison.
Juvenile custody is not prison, it’s essentially a school if you will. But, we've failed the children by not giving them opportunities. And I can't tell you how many mothers I have talked to that said, ‘please do not send my child home, give him some help. He needs help. He's addicted or he is hanging out with the wrong kids. If you send him home, I can't control him.’
So we need to rethink what we're doing with these 50 to 75 kids. And it's a small number. You consider there are thousands of children in Ramsey County or Hennepin County area, the 50 to 75 is a small number.
Sawkar: Someone texted in and asked why were those juvenile detention facilities eliminated in Ramsey County?
Fletcher: That was the decision of the county boards in Ramsey and Hennepin County. There was a plan to build a joint facility in Richfield. As that process went along, a lot of people opposed it, basically. And so the county boards decided, ‘well, that's just nix that, we’ll work on something different,’ and they never got around to building something different.
Sawkar: Another text, and this was something I wanted to ask you too. Does the instability in the Hennepin County Sheriff's office leadership make your job in Ramsey County that much more difficult? Any perspective on that?
Fletcher: No, we have a good relationship with Chief Deputy Tracey (Martin) and Dawanna Witt, who really is kind running part of their show there. So no, we've established long relationships with his administrative staff. So we're good.
Sawkar: Any thoughts on the controversy surrounding the Hennepin County sheriff?
Fletcher: Well, it's a very sad story. I mean, the sheriff was a leader in a lot of public safety things that took place. We appreciated his leadership in law enforcement, but obviously, alcohol is always a contributing factor to a person's behavior and downfall and we wish him the best. I mean, he's a very kind man. I only knew him for three years, but I found him to be a very kind person.
Sawkar: There's criticism of law enforcement in general after what happened to George Floyd, and the training involved in dealing with communities of color. It seems like you try to stress that kind of training within the Ramsey County Sheriff's Department. Can you talk about that a little?
Fletcher: Yeah. I think it's critical. The relationship that we build, our department has the lowest number of internal affairs complaints per capita in the state of Minnesota. We're proud of that and it's because we do stress that relationship. We work very closely with the Hmong community, our Black community and our Somali community, Korean community, Latino community. We have outreach programs in all of those areas. It's a critical piece. And part of the reason I started “Live on Patrol” was to show people that we're just humans. That were not what they see on the “Cops PD”, or what they see on television news reports. We're just out there trying to help people get over their obstacles. And 90% of the time we're not arresting people or confronting people. We're just talking to people and that's been the benefit of “Live on Patrol”. It's sort of engaged the community in a different way.
Sawkar: You get some criticism for it too, for showboating a bit?
Fletcher: Well, I don't know where the term showboating comes from. It's totally transparent. You know, they can criticize what I do, or we do when they see something, but there's really no showboating. That implies some type of, you know, big play and we're just driving around in a squad car.
Sawkar: Let's talk about this charter school. That's opening up this fall and that has a focus on law enforcement and leadership. This is a real passion for you. Can you tell us more about the school, what it's doing?
Fletcher: We know what it takes to help raise a successful child. I mentioned in our first segment, and we should just take those lessons and put them to work. Law enforcement is something that can help a child sort of aspire into a larger role. It's not just law enforcement. Firefighters, a variety of public service jobs. We want to bring in mentors from those roles and get these kids inspired to do something special. At the same time, we do want to have a law enforcement presence there, of safety, and no bullying that goes on in the school. I mean, parents are worried about their kids in school today. I mean, even in the best public schools, there's fights on a regular basis. As adults, we have to be better than that. We have to assure kids that they can go to school and just focus on learning, but we want to build relationships with adults for them as well. Because that's how kids make the jump to successful adulthood, having mentors and role models that they can emulate. And we're going to build in a lot of volunteers.
If you're interested in helping the go to our website, the School of Leadership for Public Service. I've already gotten dozens, if not hundreds, of law enforcement officers that say, ‘you know, I would like to help with that. I want to get at the kids at an early stage.’
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