PHILADELPHIA (KYW Newsradio) — Overall suicide rates in the United States dropped in 2019 and 2020. National and local studies attribute that trend to a drop among white Americans, but suicide deaths continue to climb in communities of color for Black, Hispanic, and Asian Americans.
KYW Newsradio afternoon anchor Jay Scott Smith spoke with Marvin Toliver, a therapist at Radical Therapy Center, to discuss the influence of toxic masculinity on the upbringing of Black men and the impact it has on the ability of generations of Black men to express their emotions and their wellness.
Toliver has a personal connection to people living with HIV and AIDS and working with the LGBTQ community. He also is the co-founder of Melanated Social Work, where he and three other male social workers of color challenge, encourage, support, promote and spread love to individuals from all walks of life, who are dealing with all sorts of mental health issues.
An edited transcript of their conversation follows.
Q. What first drew your interest to being a therapist and helping guide people through mental health issues?
A. I always have two answers to this question. One is kind of the flowery answer of, "Yeah, I want to help people, and I see issues in the community, and I want to help the world" and all of that -- which is true.
I think the more personal answer is that I wish that I'd had someone to speak to when I was in middle school, high school, when I was a younger boy, to really help me through different issues with identity, with safety, with figuring out who I am.
It's an honor that I get to do that with individuals, primarily Black and brown men.
Q. What makes it so difficult for us, as Black men, to really be up front and real about what we're going through?
A. I think it goes back to our definitions and our ideas of what masculinity is and what it means. I actually have a group for Black men happening right now. And we talked about emotions, and how as Black men, we're not really given the space to show our emotions.
Anger is typically the most acceptable emotion, but anything around sadness, around tears, around anything like that -- we're typically told to suppress those things. We automatically are just told "Stop crying" -- especially boys.
We try to parentify boys so young, which actually is doing a lot more harm. And so we're not given the space to really open up about how we're feeling a lot of the time.
Q. I grew up playing a lot of sports, and one of the main things I would hear from coaches is "You've got to toughen up." If you're hurt, you can't let them see, because it's a sign of weakness. In your experience, do you see a difference between the slightly older generation of Black men and the young guys?
A. I've seen it with older guys. I also have seen with younger guys. I really think it depends on how folks are raised and what their idea of masculinity is.
I just had a session today, and he's in his late 30s, early 40s. And he said, "My dad taught me how to cry." But you hear other people who say, "No, we never talked about anything at home."
I don't know if there's a specific age group or age range. I know that, with more voices like mine and with with other Black men out there encouraging boys and men to be emotional, to open up, to really express how you feel, is starting to change with the younger generations. But I think older generations are also evolving a bit more too.
Q. I know one thing that has also evolved, especially in the Black community, is the acceptance of the LGBTQ community. How much of a change have you seen for Black teens who are identifying as LGBTQ and running into resistance from family?
A. I think it is becoming more acceptable. I think that there is absolutely still resistance, though. We look at celebrities like Lil' Nas X right now and how much he's getting for just existing. We can't talk about anti-queerness without talking about toxic masculinity, especially in the Black community.
And masculinity is so restrictive. The issue with it is that we can't exist outside of this box that masculinity is supposed to be. When individuals identify as anything other than heterosexual, red flags are raised. Because we have such a restrictive idea what masculinity looks like, we don't really allow for anything else by identify as a queer, bisexual Black man.
Q. If you had a brother in front of you right now, who's saying "This is a lot of pain, and I don't know if I can keep pushing through this," what's something that you would recommend to him?
A. The first thing I would do is validate -- that is really say, "You know what, you are going through a lot. And I want to acknowledge that life is hard."
Also, you want to talk about the future. Look at what you have going on and look at what you have to look forward to. And I think that, as people, we really have to try and give hope to folks that think nothing is going to get better.
I obviously would recommend therapy. Therapy is incredibly helpful. There are so many good resources, especially for clinicians of color as well.
I also encourage folks to get the body involved, to go outside to lean into your community. Because when we are around other people, it brings out a different energy and a different spirit in us.
Q. What are some of the resources out there for Black men who are seeking help?
A. As far as therapy, there's psychologytoday.com, which is a pretty big one. You can filter it out by racial issues, and then you have more folks of color that show up.
There's cliniciansofcolor.org. You can filter by city and state. There's InnoPsych.com, which is another resource that has clinicians of color.
There is also me. I actually hold a group, a 10-week group for Black men. This cycle has just started. The next one will probably be in the spring of 2022.
There are other resources like groups, or just following folks that talk about mental health. I think mental health is becoming so much more popular right now, especially in the Black community.
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Follow Marvin Toliver on Instagram at @mtoliver_lcsw and @melanatedsocialwork. Visit Radical Therapy Center online at radicaltherapycenter.com.
Eric Walter contributed to this report.